EHL spring 2015 disciplinary thread

This thread is to be used for publishing any disciplinary decisions carried out by the admin that relate to the EHL Spring 2015 tournament. The topic is open for discussion but only in relevance to the rules and the decisions made upon them.

Case 1:

— Brotherhood HT

It has come to my attention that Pigeonfield Jr has been using Kpetrol to play in Brotherhood HT for the entirety of the season. As such, this violates rule 2.2 found in the rule book.

«2 Registration of member accounts

1§ Player who wants to participate in a tournament has to register an account on Consolehockey.
By registering an account the member hereby acknowledge that the member has read, and accepted these general rules.
2§ A player may only register one account per console.
A player who violates this article will receive a permanent ban from Consolehockey and future tournaments arranged by said website.A player who knowingly assists another member in violating this article will receive a permanent ban.
3§ Registration of an account requires a unique IP address that Consolehockey will recognize. If more than one member uses the same computer for registration, make sure to notify an EC Admin or the website administration within 24 hours of completed registration to avoid ban.»

Furthermore since this has been going on for a while and no one from Brotherhood HT thought it would be wise to let me know what's been going on, I have to place most of the blame on the Captain. How much he knew about the entire situation is unclear, however, ultimately he is the Captain and should be aware of any major infractions.

«1§ Captain of a team has the outermost responsibility for his team and his members and to his capability make sure these follow both general and tournament rules.»

Verdict:

In reference to the rules stated above and the harsh nature it commands, I have decided to ban Pigeonfield, Pigeonfield Jr based on their actions. Pigeonfield Jr for carrying out the infraction, and Pigeonfield for knowing about it since the beginning.

Furthermore the captain Jonde20 will also be banned due to him being the captain and not flagging up the infraction when he was told about it.

Additionally, all current members outside of the ones listed above will be warned.

In summary:

Banned members —

Pigeonfield
Pigeonfield Jr (KPetrol)
Jonde20

Warned members —

Selänne8
Hanssonni
Priest of Evil
Spud
Puteli88
Exarz
JKoski87

Finally, as Brotherhood HT after the series of bans will still have atleast 6 players in their roster, the hard cap of one extra player will still be in effect.

Case 2:

  • empty

74 comments

kpetrol
Hey everyone,
My name is Pontus Duvefelt and I am the owner of the account Kpetrol, goaltender for Brotherhood HT.
I wanted to start by saying that this has been an awesome tournament so far – I’ve had an absolute blast playing with and against all of you guys, the sportsmanship and competition has been great! EHL is probably the most fun I think all of us will ever have with this videogame-franchise, I know it has been for me (except for the 2-12 game against BSE…).
I think most of you know why I am writing this statement. It came to my attention today that I stand accused of cheating. My first reaction to this accusation was suprise. Cheating? Me? Being stuck in the middle of the pack statisticlly among all the goalies, apperantly I must be a pretty bad cheater.
But then I heard about the rule on registrering multiple accounts on Console Hockey, and I realised: fuck, somewhere along the way I fucked up big time.
I’m writing this, not as an argument, but as an apology – and to clear things up for anyone wondering what this Pigeon-gate is really about.

As some of you may already know, I am the younger brother of Pigeonfield, and we’ve been playing together since the launch of EASHL in 09. Some of you may know me under my other Xbox Account Pigeonfield Jr – the account I mainly used during the period 2009-2014. Last year we joined this tournament for the first time, co-captaining Club HC to an Quarter-Final exit. At this point I registered the account Pigeonfield Jr at this website.

Around 3-4 months ago we decided to end the NHL 15 version of Club HC due to lack of interest from several teammates. Needless to say I shut down my NHL-playing for a while. Around the same time our good friend and goalie Kpetrol stopped playing NHL 15 due to a recently started course in Webdesign. I asked him if I could borrow his account and start playing G, since he had a much better Goalie card than me. So I did, and I played alot of games making it all the way to the Legend 3 card, finding fun in NHL 15 once again. It has since grown to be my main account when it comes to NHL, with the occational switch up to the Pig JR account to play Skater (who has a legend 3 card in that category).

Shortly before this tournament started, and after we realised Club HC wasnt going to happen, me and brother was approached by Brotherhood HT. They were looking for a G and a D. It sounded like a lot of fun so we decided to join.
Of course, here comes my mistake – I hadnt read the rules closely enough. In an attempt to make it easier for the dedicated GMs reporting the game-stats I decided to create a matching account for Kpetrol on Consolehockey. I didnt even think a lot about it, just seemed like a good idea at the time.

With this statement I’m not trying to justify any of this, I just wanted to sort out some missunderstandings. One could argue alot about this situation – but i’ve decided I’m not gonna. Like with Nicklas Backström during the winter olympics of 2014 – this situation is unfortunate, but there is not really any excuse not knowing the rules. I just wanted to let you know, that I had the best of intentions and wasnt trying to trick any of you.
I want to apologise to Bomanovic and everyone else feeling cheated by this situation. I want to apologise to MartindalexC who have been a great commisioner so far, for this inconvenience. I especially want to apologise to my finnish teammates, whom I’ve gotten to know during this last month, and grown quite fond of – I’m sorry for this inconvenience, coming now, right before us entering the playoff safter a great tournament by you guys. I also want to apologise to my brother, who somehow stand accused with me.

I accept whatever punishment the commisioner decides, and I accept it with no hard feelings. Playing this tournament was great and I wish the best of luck to all the remaining teams.
If anyone wants to ask me anything, just post a comment, I’ll stick around.

Best of wishes,
Pontus Duvefelt
Hanssonni
Thanks for ruining our tournament.

Are we really this hated?
i cant believe my eyes that Jonde20 is banned too.

-Game over-
Comment updated:
Jesus
And that folks, is why you should use the submarine tactics!
kpetrol
I am so sorry for this. In tears right now. Fuck…
bjono
I feel sry for you Pontus and don't think your intention was to «cheat» but the rule is there:/

And it's also sad that the winner of the group stage point league winner miss the playoffs.

I think / hope that no one hates you at all. But once again the rule is there and it's kind of a sloppy misstake.

You'll never walk alone Jonde20, Pigeonfield and Pigeonfield jr
Hanssonni
I am so sorry for this. In tears right now. Fuck…

</3
kpetrol
bjono,

Thanks-- it really sucks when it dosent only affect yourself but also the people around you…

I dont know what to do, in absolute anxiety mode right now.
ImSteelD
youtu.be/_8u4VLk0iTI

I'm crying 2 — I love Enya.
Let's cry together, you'll never walk alone.
Pigeonfield
We tried to hide NOTHING. Why the fuck would he NAME HIS FUCKING player his own name, the same name, if we were trying to trick anyone? Why would I openly tell bomanovic everything, unprompted, in the GM chat if we were trying to break the rules? For fucks sake Martindale, you're going to ban a whole team out of a tournament of 11 teams for a minor, administrative mistake??? Talk about power trip. We have hurt no one, absolutely no one.

Well written statement bro, but seriously… this couldn't atleast have been a GM vote? Do you people, especially bomanovic, think we cheated?
Pigeonfield
«No one thought it would be wise...»

Some balls on you.
ImSteelD
Hanssonni, well… I THINK you guys (some of you) ruined the tournament for many players/teams last year with the 0-45 loss against SIKA in the quarterfinal.
You can't blame Connor for this, you can only blame yourselfs.

Step up for fuck sake Hanssonni.
Skärp dig.
kpetrol
ImSteelD,

I had nothing to do with that. I didnt even know them back then.
Pigeonfield
We, me and my brother, had nothing to do with last year. We didn't even know the people of BHT then. This has nothing to do with that.
Hanssonni
ImSteelD, I do not have any reason to fool around again.

Stupid to even remind me of that.

Comment updated:
Jesus
wrong
Comment updated:
ImSteelD
Pigeonfield, Hur fan skulle det vara om ni läste igenom reglerna från första början? Ja, detta är ett felsteg, tråkigt för din bror osv. Men regeln finns där, och den finns där JUST för att skydda att lag tar in spelare under falsk identitet. Vilket skulle kunna innebära att ett lag såsom «Görans BK» plockar in spelare från tex Northern Stars eller Unknown för att förstärka/täcka upp för andra spelare i laget.
Givetvis var det absolut inte era intentioner, men regeln bröts.
Varför i helvete ändrade ni bara inte Kpetrol till din brors riktiga användare här på console? Och sedan rapporterade detta till Connor direkt? Precis så som man ska göra om man «tar över någons konto».
Det är många regler att läsa igenom, men det är fan ett lags GM's skyldighet innan man går med i en turnering. Och med en gammal TGMA i lagetc(Hanssonni) så förstår jag inte riktigt vart någonstans det gick fel.
Synd om din bror, absolut. Men seriöst, skärp er.
Hanssonni
ImSteelD, det gick fel där, jag fick veta idag att petrol var vem han var.
kpetrol
ImSteelD,

Det är givetvis jävligt lätt att vara efterklok, speciellt om man kollar in från utsidan…

Jag hade inte läst reglerna tillräckligt noga. Det var det som gick fel. Hade givetvis kunnat använda mitt gamla console-konto thinking back. Men aa, tänkte inte så jävla noga. Startade ett nytt så att folk inte skulle bli förvirrade när de rapporterade matcher… MartindalexC har tydligen vetat vem jag var hela tiden

Har som sagt inte försökt dölja något — hetat Pontus Duvefelt här på sidan sedan starten. Haft Jokern som Profilbild på xbox live på både Pigeonfield Jr och Kpetrol osv.
Comment updated:
Pigeonfield
Aa fast sitt ner i båten nu StålD. Förstår exakt varför regeln är där, förstår dess tanke. Likaväl som jag tror du förstår att det här fallet är något av ett specialfall i jämförelse.

Och varför vi i «helvete» inte rapporterade det här? En miss helt enkelt, ett administrativt misstag. Ett sådant som du säkert aldrig gjort i ditt liv, antar jag. Du har förmodligen aldrig hört talas om en andra chans eller? Speciellt med tanke på att det i jag och min brors fall, som är de "åtalade" i denna kängururätt, inte är så att vi är återfallsförbrytare.

En varning och några matchers avstängning hade utan tvekan varit på sin plats.

Det här är ett skämt.
ImSteelD
Pigeonfield, Ett adminstrativt fel säger du. Som GM har du fortfarande inga ursäkter till att inte ha läst regelboken.
Därför är det väl ganska naturligt att DU som GM bär ansvaret och därav får straffet.
Och givetvis, jag har själv krypit igenom regler och kryphål i systemet i tidigare turneringar. Men då hade vi svagare TGMA's som inte stog bakom regelboken, eller snarare — reglerna i regelboken hade kryphål.
Ett miss, ja kanske — men en otillåten spelare genom hela gruppspelet. Är nog ganska svårt för er TGMA att blunda för. Han gör sitt jobb, det jobb som hans företrädare inte gjorde.
Hanssonni känner nog till resultatet av dubbelspelande och spel på fel konto sen tidigare. Att han var ovetande är väl kanske olyckligt. Men vilken skräll att han trots allt var inblandad igen.

Hade varit kul om ändå Bäckström hade fått spela den där finalen. Men det kommer nya chanser.
Pigeonfield
Jag är inte, och har aldrig varit, GM för Brotherhood.

Skillnaden mellan att hitta kryphål och att göra ett misstag som vi utan omsvep eller försök till fulspel «erkänt» är väl snarare att det sistnämnda är en ärligare process?

Martindale själv utnyttjade ju kryphål i förra årets turnering när han plockade in er till slutspelet och alla ryckte på axlarna över det. Men den här situationen förtjänar helt plötsligt Consolehockey-motsvarigheten till dödsstraffet när samme regelbändare styr och ställer....?

Sen är det ju lite kul att du i Bäckström-exemplet säger att «det kommer nya chanser» när vi, om jag förstått det rätt, är lifetime-bannade över det här ärliga, utan ont uppsåt misstaget.
bomanovic
Ber om ursäkt Pontus, förstår att du är en fin kille och förstår din besvikelse. Håller med om att konsekvenserna är ett skämt. Ärlig ursäkt, hade aldrig öppnat munnen om jag visste av konsekvenserna.

Puss & kram
kpetrol
On case 2:

It turns out MartindalexC knew all along that I was Pigeonfield Jr, without doing anything to sort the situation out, letting me know the rules with a warning or anything. With hearing that, I snapped.

Very mature to post a private message of frustration for everyone to see. Great administrating.

Also, when these accusations came up, he didnt make any attempt whatsoever to talk to me about it, asking what was up. I think that is kind of shitty.

Thanks boman, good luck in play in. Also, I hope BSE or however the frack is playing NOR kicks them out of the tourney.
Foppatoffla
Fast nu är det väl rätt uppenbart att det blir så hårt straff för att Hansonni har varit en fitta förut med sånt här och att det inte ser speciellt bra ut när han är inblandad igen?

Haha «kryphål». Ja, för att lägga till superstjärnornas superstjärna Weztblom i slutspelet är det regelvidrigaste som hänt den här turneringen!
MartindalexC
kpetrol, Except I really didn't (Something I explained in detail in the pm, but you neglected to read it seems). I assumed that you would have gone about it in proper fashion and made sure that any possible rule infractions would have been dealt with. Obviously I was at fault for thinking that to check if you were breaking the most basic of rules was a high priority, apparently it wasn't.

I do treat every PM with the utmost of discretion, however when you directly insult me and try to undermine my decisions, any right to a confidential 'chat' goes away entirely.
Pigeonfield
So now the administrator is going about posting personal messages for everyone to see? I hope everyone is paying attention.

Nothing in that PM that was even remotely bad enough to warrant you trying to make my brother look like an asshole for venting his frustrations to what he thought was you privately.

Might as well post my PMs too, no? I mean, I was under the assumption they were PRIVATE MESSAGES but don't worry about that — I have nothing to be ashamed of. I stand by every furious word of it. So go ahead, post em.
Pigeonfield
«Proper fashion»?

What, is he supposed to thank you for banning him forever over an honest mistake? This situation is growing more absurd by the minute and so is your handling of it. If you're that thin-skinned then maybe being TGMA isn't for you.

I agree with my brother, read some fucking Spider-Man… asshole.
ImSteelD
Pigeonfield, oj — fel av mig, du var hans bror. Ej Gm.

Fel igen. JAG hittade kryphålet, ej Connor.
Men vadå kryphål? Jag var Free Agent, Goatlender var Free Agent. Foppa och Anton spelade i varsitt svenskt lag.
Regel 1: ett lag får max ta in 2 spelare som redan spelat för ett annat lag i turneringen = Anton och Foppa.
regel 2: ett lag får endast signa Free Agents efter deadline.
Vad hände då?
Jag var extremt sugen att börja spela med Foppa och Anton igen, så JAG lästw igenom reglerna för att se om det var möjligt. Jag var i Northern Stars roster, men eftersom jag ej hade några matcher spelade där så var jag regelrätt fortfarande FA.
Jag snackade med GMs för 5 olika lag om vi fick ansluta till deras lag, likaså som att vi fick ett JA från Connor och NOR, så fick vi ja från 3 andra klubbar (endast ryyman i DBK som sa nej — han försökte få oss att skriva något kontrakt).
Vi anslöt med 2 gruppspelsmatcher kvar utav 8.
Inga regler bröts, inget kryphål gicks igenom.

Goatlender anslöt till finalen, Free Agent regeln tillät honom att göra det.
Connor sa inte ja till detta. JAG (iSvamp — GM för Unknown) i princip tjatade mig till det, och körde över både Connor och Polis för att få min vilja igenom. Den var fortfarande regelrätt, men kanske feg.

Men att NOR vann pga detta drag är bs. Connor är en av de bästa LW's jag någonsin spelat med, Polis plockade bort chimera på sin kant och vi slog innan det ut ett lag som LHT i game 7 utan jocke i mål.

Att smutskasta Connor för detta är fegt. Det var jag som körde över NOR, inte tvärtom.
3 andra GMs var sugna att göra samma sak, men vi valde NOR just pga att det var sköna gubbar i laget.

Såg att ngt lag värvat halva Laser HT till denna turnering? Vad är skillnaden? FREE AGENTS va?..

«Det kommer nya chanser» ptja, byt ip och gör ett nytt konto? Ska väl inte vara så svårt… va?
Comment updated:
janbo
This year I've been following the tournament on the sidelines and it looks like the community has managed so stage yet another exciting event. Kudos to MartindalexC for running it. Especially in situations like this there's bound to be a lot of controversy, i.e. bucketfuls of shit hitting the fan in a cramped room.

However, I have to say there are some issues I find odd to say the least. In fact, sufficiently odd to feel obliged to make a comment.

Last year Hanssonni, Priest of eviL and Jonde20 received a permanent ban for these same infractions. Now, they're allowed to participate in the very next tournament — and get warned for breaching the very same rules. As of now, they have permanent bans and warnings, so what next? Who allowed them to join, why, and/or based on which section of the rulebook?

Rules lose their meaning if punishment is not enforced, and so they will be breached time and again.

Judging from the information available here — and by the way, I don't consider the texts in Swedish of any informational value to me — the 'pigeonfield brothers' did not have as clear intentionality in their breaching of rules, unlike with Hanssonni et al. So again I'm left to wonder why their bans were lifted and the 'pigeonfield bros' now banned; I find this very contradictory.

Regards,
janbo, admin for the previous tournament
Pigeonfield
Ja, och hela grejen med förra året var väl att det var lite på gränsen — det kan de flesta hålla med om — men att det accepterades. Jag bryr mig egentligen inte så mycket om förra året, hade inte ägnat det en tanke om jag inte ansett det här vara så fruktansvärt oproportionelig, orättvis bestraffning.

Sen är det intressant att det jag sa specifikt om att NOR endast vann pga detta skedde i ett PM till Connor, inte någonstans i chatten här där du kunnat se det… antar att han visar dessa PM för vem han än känner för.

Har inget behov av att byta IP och göra ett nytt konto för jag har inget behov av att kringgå reglerna eller fuska. Jag är ingen fuskare, aldrig varit — det är framförallt det som gör mig så förbannad kring hela den här situationen.
billy44
I agree with the wise man Janbo. But I will take it one cynical step further and say that perma-bans don't exist so we might as well scrap them from the rule book. When you think about it, maybe it's for the better since permanent measures might be inappropriate for such a light topic as a videogame tournament.

Anyway, that's an unfortunate turn of events for the pigeon brothers to be banned from the playoffs, especially when they only broke the rules in definitions rather than in spirit. I'd say otherwise if the pigeonfield jr account had been used for EHL games obviously but it hasn't been the case, has it?

Lastly, something must be said about how these things happen to Hanssonni's team… Again. That aspect of an otherwise sad topic, is hilarious to me. The more things change, the more they stay the same!
ImSteelD
Pigeonfield, Det var på gränsen, ett «kryphål» SOM många av er vill kalla det i Mördarelefantens FELFRIA men omdiskuterade regelbok från NHL13. Därför fixade Connor den regeln till denna turnering.

Och nej. Jag skrev «bs» just pga den jargong som härjat sen den där finalen i våras, på skype, i lagchattar osv osv. Jag/vi må ha lämnat x-lådan, men vi finns kvar på skype.
Och just via skype har jag via diverse ingångar följt detta drama under kvällens gång, och det är därför jag är här och lägger mig i.

Och angående bannen är den väl sett till dem senaste inläggen ganska odiskutabel. Diverse rövhål hit och rövhål dit och pajasstämpeln var ett faktum. Så skit i det föreslagna Ip-fusket, det kanske är lika bra.
Hur förbannad man än är, så bröt du/ni några ytterligare regler precis, så nu kan denna diskussion läggas ner.

Xbox ska vara glada för att dem äntligen fått en vettig TGMA — det är inte vad vi har på den andra sidan.
Pigeonfield
De senaste inläggen bör väl inte tas ställning till i sakfrågan om den första bannens korrekthet, vilket är där vi var från början. Sen började det spåra ut via frustration över orättvis behandling, det har jag ingen övrig kommentar till.

Diskussionen var redan nedlagd sedan tidigare. Oavsett beteende fanns det inget som gick att säga som kunde ändra originalbeslutet, det fanns varken rim eller reson eller hänsyn till regelbrottets omständigheter — ett totalt orimligt beteende i förhållande till vårat faktiska «brott».

Var bland annat det som föranledde uthängningar, namnkallande osv., frustrationen över att ingen hänsyn, dialog eller flexibilitet fanns att tillgå från en person vi alla ändå litar på att hantera en schysst turnering.

Jag är säker på att du skulle hanterat en liknande situationen med större grace, men ibland rinner det över.

Skulle aldrig fuska, oavsett omständigheter.
bomanovic
Är det Connor du snackar är vettig?
Pigeonfield
It has not been the case, billy.

The 'Pigeonfield Jr'-account on Console Hockey hasn't been used in games for about a year.
janbo
billy44,

You made good points in your post. I agree with you that the 'pigeonfielders' did not breach the spirit of the rule, unlike Hanssonni etc. last year, but this is of course open to interpretation, and in the end, the interpretation is up to the tournament admin, TGMA or whatever entity it is called.

I understand your point on permanent bans. One of the reasons I think the existence of permanent bans is justified is also because of what you said — it's a video game. People running these tournaments do it using their personal time resources, sometimes very extensively, without any other reward than getting a tournament through smoothly. Therefore, the threat of permanent bans on the worst infractions serves as a deterrent for anyone thinking of purposefully violating the rules, thus saving time and effort for the administration of the tournament.

Of course, it would be the best if we didn't need these rules and could rely on the gentlemanship of participants, but a possibility of such has been proven wrong many times by now, and it's no wonder in a very competitive environment.
ImSteelD
bomanovic, Korrekt.
Jesus
Real quick!

I have to side with the brothers here. The penality, dont fit the crime. To begin with, the sentence is kind of invalid, since there is no such thing as a «permanent ban.» The same sentence have been given many times before (Laser-guys, Hans, Billy, Raixor etc) and they are still here, playing in the very same tournament.

So the sentence needs to be modified. Also, the sentence is way to harch. I don't understand why the current rulebook doesn't make a difference between having a extra account in your team, and using that same extra account in a game. There is a difference between owning a gun and using it on someone else. Using the second account should be a ban, but if I understand it correctly, they haven't used it, right?

Just as in life, there most be room for negotiations, when the sentence dosen't make sense. A good settlement in the case, would be to give them a 3-5 game suspension! At least not «a permanent bann», when its not really permanent… It's a silly verdict tbh!
Hanssonni
Real quick im gonna tell u.

I didnt know Kpetrol was Pigeonfield Jr before they took it up on the gm chat and i asked our GM.

So stop blaming me.
Over.
Comment updated:
Hanssonni
Foppatoffla, jag visste inte om någonting. Alla skyller mig, har inte gjort nåt fel.
Pigeonfield
Jesus,

This is why I keep pushing the «administrative mistake» part of this whole process, because that is honestly what it is. Was it a sloppy oversight not to ask an admin to take down the old account? Yes, it was. But that account is not being used for EHL games. It is essentially dormant and has been for a while.

Add to this that Martindale knew that my brother was playing on the 'kpetrol' account. He was aware of it, but thought 'kpetrol' was just the Pig Jr-account renamed. So the TGMA was aware who was playing on the account, we made no attempts to conceal it (as has been noted, he has been playing under his real name on the profile from the start- just check the «Stats» to see this) and still there was no room for debate on the matter.

Using the information in the passage above, what it comes down to is an administrative error, a fuck-up for sure, but no attempts to cheat.

Both me and my brother have attempted to remain civil throughout the process, as evidenced by my brothers «statement» released and my early conversations with Martindale on the matter. But the more this situation escalated, the more we felt we were being treated to a cangaroo court — determined to ban us for life no matter what arguments we put forth on the matter.
I, for example, floated the idea of a ban for a few games early on in the process.

I understand the need to enforce the rules and I understand the need for punishment, but goddamnit — this isn't it.

All this of course led to massive amounts of frustrations and a last-ditch effort to try and raise some hell to atleast make some people aware of what was going on.

As I said in my latest PM to Martindale, I apologize for some of my ruder remarks — they were silly. But I will not apologize for the shock I am in with regards to how this matter is being treated and decision he's made.
kpetrol
Last night turned out to be one hell of a emotional roller coaster. I think I literally went through the 5 stages of grief (or at least the first 4). I never meant to hurt anyone. I never meant to cheat anyone. All I ever wanted was to play a competetive tournament and have fun. With you guys.

I think many (not all of course) can agree, we sometimes say alot of stupid shit when we’re not ourselves – when we’re angry, when we’re dissapointed, when we feel cheated. As did I last night. For that I am sorry. I am sorry for reacting the way I did, later on during the night, when my panic was at large (I only finished my statement moments before the ban went public).

I am sorry for all that, and for taking it all out on a person who has taken his free time to administer this, until last night, exceptional tournament (first time admin as well). But I can’t help the lingering feeling of sadness, mistreatment and even humiliation. I just can’t.
MartindalexC
janbo,

I decided on my own accord to over-turn the previous bans based on the thought process that it was a 'final chance' situation for those you mentioned. I don't regret doing this, nor do I think it was uncalled for as it allowed for more players to join in an already small tournament. That was my decision and my decision only, originally Bjono came to me saying some people wanted to re-join if they could and after thinking about for a while I decided I should try and extend an olive branch, so to speak. (People can grow up after being faced with a permanent ban and realise how stupid they've been, just ask Hanssonni)

«Rules lose their meaning if punishment is not enforced, and so they will be breached time and again.»

I agree completely, the reason I made an exception when I came in was because I wanted as many people to play as possible. That said, this was at the beginning before any games had been played. Not at the beginning of the playoffs. Furthermore I explained to them that they would be on a tight line and any rule break with them involved could very easily end up with them being banned again.

However surely if you believe what you wrote just above, you would think that regardless of the intentions… if a rule is broken the person should be punished? Otherwise a team could break a whole number of rules and get away with by simply stating they didn't understand or they didn't mean to. Ignorance does not equal innocence.
Pigeonfield
Ignorance does not equal innocence — Now we are starting to find common ground because I agree with this wholeheartedly (I'll get back to this).

To start with, this particular situation does not involve Hanssoni, priest or jonde individually and should, in my opinion, be judged on it's own merit. To corroborate this I can provide print screen of the PM-conversation Hanssoni and I had when he approached me for the first time, to join the team. This conversation was of Hanssoni having seen me post in the EHL-startup thread that our team was out and he said they had two spots open, D and G. Naturally I jumped at the opportunity! Where I am going with this though is that none of the Brotherhood guys knew us personally or had played with us before — surely their previous transgressions (which they were forgiven for) shouldn't have any impact on this individual decision concerning Pontus and mine unfortunate mistake? If that has been a factor in the judgement, I mean.

As I said, we are starting to find common ground. Regardless of intention, if a rule is broken the person should be punished. This is a fair assessment. This is also where our opinions diverge. It's the severity of the punishment and the questionable interpretation of the nature of our «crime» that I have some serious issues with.

Ignorance or lack of intention may not equal complete forgiveness, but in the real world it usually has a bearing on the punishment. Look at the verdicts for involuntary manslaugher and murder- the courts, and judges that preside over them, put an awful lot of weight into these factors (comparing video games to murder, now that's a comparison I never thought I'd make) and therefore the punishment for deliberate murder is considerably harsher than the punishment for involuntary mansluaghter.

Honestly, the way the rule in question is worded and the way this particular case has played out in this particular instance is highly questionable. If you can get a permanent ban for commiting a minor administrative mistake, there is something wrong with the rule itself. In cases like these there NEEDS to be room for interpretation and adaptation of the punishment.

Please Martindale, I am asking you to hear our arguments and listen to reason, that is all.
billy44
Connor, the thing with this tournament is that rules have neer really been applied to the letter, and for good reason if you ask me since it's such a small tournament. Now you enforce a rule to the letter when the real crime that rule was there to prevent, one player on several teams or a banned guy playing on a 2nd tag, didn't happen. This specific EHL was always gonna be ruled based on admin judgement rather than a rule book that isn't yours (I mean you didn't revise it, or if you did you neglected a lot...) to begin with. You even wrote a few guidelines which from my understanding are law above the outdated rulebook. It just seems inconsistent if you throw the rulebook at people's face now, and it seems unfair if your judgement made you inflict the biggest penalty on the offender.

With all that said I am not asking you to backpedal on your ruling.
janbo
MartindalexC,

Thank you for taking the time to explain your view. I understand the tournament was in a dire need of participants, and in the light of this it makes sense to 'parole' some people willing to participate.

Nevertheless, I would not have made the same decision on these fellows. It was shown without any reasonable doubt that they breached the rules that are most strict in the whole rule book with full intention and awareness.

By lifting the bans at the get-go, you signaled the participants, presumably without realizing it, that breaking these rules will not lead to consequences stated in the rule book. In the end, all the participants didn't pay attention to or handle their team-administrative duties as well as they should have. The 'pigeonfielders' surely remembered case Hanssonni from last season, and seeing the players now in the tournament, well, surely didn't encourage them to handle their business any better.

Having said that, I'm not here simply to criticize you or your invaluable work as a tournament admin. I know how it is, it takes gut to make tough calls and be on the receiving end of the ensuing hate-train. It's just that in a conflict of understandings discussion is the key, and I'm here to do that — to evaluate the past, understand the present and influence the future of the community.

However surely if you believe what you wrote just above, you would think that regardless of the intentions… if a rule is broken the person should be punished? Otherwise a team could break a whole number of rules and get away with by simply stating they didn't understand or they didn't mean to. Ignorance does not equal innocence.

Yes, I stand by my words. My personal opinion is that the 'pigeonfield brothers' should be sanctioned for breaking the rule. However, in light of current evidence I'm quite convinced there was no intent of doing so, and like described by billy44 earlier, in that sense they only broke the definition and not the spirit of the rule. Therefore, I would scale down the penalty described in the rule book. I did so and even released some players from all sanctions last tournament, when it was clearly proven that they weren't the ones responsible, and I do not mean to imply the 'pigeonfielders' not being responsible for their actions. I agree that ignorance doesn't equal innocence and a punishment is in order, but it should not be as strong as when deliberately breaking rules and trying to cover up the scheme, like Hanssonni et. al. Throughout the Western world the judicial systems have what are called 'precedents', cases which set an example for future similar cases. If we consider that Hanssonni et. al. were first warned, then banned, then allowed to join only to get another warning, what kind of an example is this if not a bad one? Reflecting on their case, quite frankly no one can expect to get a permanent ban for violating that particular rule. In this case Hanssonni et. al. «got away with it» simply by saying they've grown up and changed their behavior, which is something any inmate would say. Just like most people out of jail, it didn't take long for them to get in trouble again. So, yes, I would much rather evaluate the sanctions on basis of evidence of intention, not by what the persecuted say about their personal growth.

My five cents.
— janbo
Jonde20
Connor knows the real story of this and you dont…
Jesus
Pigeonfield
I am literally checking this site once every five minutes to see if there has been any progress, haha. Suppose that is one way to spend an evening, lol
MartindalexC
I've looked over everything again and I am still in favour of my original conclusion. Taking into account the rule breakage and the code of conduct breaches.

As such Pigeonfield, Pigeonfield Jr / KPetrol and Jonde20 will remain banned.

As far as I'm concerned this case is finalised and any further comments pertaining to this will simply be 'beating a dead horse'.
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